29 October Written DÁIL Question (56) on Starbucks Tax Payments & Compliance
Click for recent Irish Examiner article
Maureen asked the Minister for Finance if he will explain the recent tax figures released regarding a company (details supplied) paying only €35,000 in Irish taxes since 2005 while paying €5.7 million in royalty and licensing fees to its parent company; his response to the fact that companies like these can cut their income tax by paying fees to its parent company making it look like they are at a loss and are therefore not obliged to pay income tax; if he will consider measures to prevent this even though they are currently legal activities; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
For WRITTEN answer on Wednesday, 24th October, 2012. Ref No: 46828/12
REPLY
Minister for Finance ( Mr Noonan) : I am precluded from commenting on the tax affairs of any taxpayer, as these are confidential between the taxpayer and the Revenue Commissioners.
However, I am aware of recent media reports which refer to the ways that some companies structure their international tax affairs to minimise their tax costs. The ability of entities to reduce their tax liabilities using international structures reflects the global context in which Ireland and indeed all countries operate. In general, companies are required to pay corporation tax in the country where they carry on the economic activity, not necessarily where their customers are located. It is important to state clearly that all companies in Ireland pay the standard 12.5% rate on their trading profits which are generated in Ireland.
I wish to advise the Deputy that the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 requires a company’s trading profits to be computed in accordance with generally accepted accounting practice subject to any adjustment required by tax law. In computing such profits, expenses that are incurred wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade, including royalties or licence fees paid for the use of intellectual property, are deductible.
Subsidiaries of multinational groups, whether located in Ireland or other countries, will necessarily incur certain bona fide expenditures including, for example, royalty payments to group companies in foreign jurisdictions for the use of intellectual property rights. Such payments represent the required remuneration of valuable intangible assets funded and owned outside the State. Ireland cannot expect to receive or retain the remuneration of these assets. Nevertheless, Irish resident companies are chargeable to corporation tax at the standard 12.5% rate on the full trading profits that are generated from their economic activities here.
The tax code contains transfer pricing rules that apply the OECD’s arm’s length pricing principle to trading transactions between associated companies. This ensures that the profits chargeable to corporation tax in Ireland fully reflect the functions, assets and risks located here by a multinational group. As with any other rules in relation to the computation of income for tax purposes, the transfer pricing rules include provision for any adjustments to income and tax payable to be made if required.
I would emphasise that Ireland is fully supportive of international efforts to ensure fairness in taxation. Ireland participates fully in the EU Code of Conduct Group, which addresses harmful tax competition, and in the OECD Forum on Harmful Tax Practices.
For WRITTEN answer on Wednesday, 24th October, 2012. Ref No: 46828/12
REPLY
Minister for Finance ( Mr Noonan) : I am precluded from commenting on the tax affairs of any taxpayer, as these are confidential between the taxpayer and the Revenue Commissioners.
However, I am aware of recent media reports which refer to the ways that some companies structure their international tax affairs to minimise their tax costs. The ability of entities to reduce their tax liabilities using international structures reflects the global context in which Ireland and indeed all countries operate. In general, companies are required to pay corporation tax in the country where they carry on the economic activity, not necessarily where their customers are located. It is important to state clearly that all companies in Ireland pay the standard 12.5% rate on their trading profits which are generated in Ireland.
I wish to advise the Deputy that the Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 requires a company’s trading profits to be computed in accordance with generally accepted accounting practice subject to any adjustment required by tax law. In computing such profits, expenses that are incurred wholly and exclusively for the purposes of the trade, including royalties or licence fees paid for the use of intellectual property, are deductible.
Subsidiaries of multinational groups, whether located in Ireland or other countries, will necessarily incur certain bona fide expenditures including, for example, royalty payments to group companies in foreign jurisdictions for the use of intellectual property rights. Such payments represent the required remuneration of valuable intangible assets funded and owned outside the State. Ireland cannot expect to receive or retain the remuneration of these assets. Nevertheless, Irish resident companies are chargeable to corporation tax at the standard 12.5% rate on the full trading profits that are generated from their economic activities here.
The tax code contains transfer pricing rules that apply the OECD’s arm’s length pricing principle to trading transactions between associated companies. This ensures that the profits chargeable to corporation tax in Ireland fully reflect the functions, assets and risks located here by a multinational group. As with any other rules in relation to the computation of income for tax purposes, the transfer pricing rules include provision for any adjustments to income and tax payable to be made if required.
I would emphasise that Ireland is fully supportive of international efforts to ensure fairness in taxation. Ireland participates fully in the EU Code of Conduct Group, which addresses harmful tax competition, and in the OECD Forum on Harmful Tax Practices.
10 October Topical Issue Community Employment Schemes
Click to hear Maureen raise CE issues
Topical Issue Community Employment Schemes
The problems with community employment schemes undergoing difficulty recruiting participants due to changes in social welfare payments and participants' fears of losing their benefits;
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting the topic of the knock-on effects cuts in social welfare are having on participation in the community employment scheme. Without meaning any disrespect to the Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, I am disappointed that the Minister for Social Protection is not present to address the issue. I thought the idea behind the Topical Issue matters was to have the Minister with direct responsibility before the House to discuss them.
I have considerable experience in the area of community employment, having been involved in the current community employment schemes and the old AnCO schemes as a member of membership committees and liaison person for participants. The Minister visited some community employment schemes in the north inner city some time ago. The specific community employment schemes to which I refer provide valuable services, including child care, after-school services and care for the elderly. They also provide a service for participants by offering them training, further training and educational opportunities, whether through first chance education or back-to-education schemes. In addition to these benefits, certain community employment schemes should be recognised as an end in themselves because they deal with extremely vulnerable individuals, including early school leavers who may have been caught up in crime or addiction. Schemes of this nature are different from other community employment schemes. In that regard, I acknowledge the decision to ring-fence schemes in the area of drugs.
There is no doubt that cuts in social welfare benefits are having a knock-on effect on participation in community employment schemes. I will cite the community after school project, CASPr, to illustrate the problem. The CASP is having difficulty filling 38 places as a result of cuts in social welfare benefits This will have a knock-on effect on the training and education grant, which means some participants in the scheme may find their educational and training opportunities being curtailed or deferred. Further, if community employment schemes cannot attract sufficient participants, they will not be able to provide badly needed services. Child safety measures have resulted in different ratios being implemented for child care projects and it is possible these projects may not be filled either.
Developments in the social welfare area are having a ripple effect. We have heard that interviews are being held. However, the approximately €20 additional payment available to participants in community employment schemes will not even cover transport costs or the cost of their lunch. Some participants are in danger of losing a small pension entitlement, while others may lose their medical card. Potential participants who could gain valuable experience from community employment schemes, whether by securing employment or entering further education, must give precedence to their economic security. Cuts in social welfare benefits are having a range of effects on community employment schemes and their participants and will have implications for supervisors and assistant supervisors if numbers decline.
Community employment schemes in certain areas - not only those which involve drugs - must be ring-fenced given the high rates of unemployment, educational disadvantage and so forth. If the Minister had been present, I would have asked her to give special consideration to the schemes in question.
Deputy Ciarán Cannon: I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, who is abroad on Government business.
As announced in the budget, from 16 January 2012, new participants in community employment schemes will not be able to simultaneously claim their original social welfare payment and a community employment allowance, as per section 12 of the Social Welfare Act 2011. This measure affects those in receipt of the following payments commencing community employment schemes after that date: one parent family payment; deserted wife's benefit; widow's-widower's pension; illness benefit; disability allowance; invalidity pension; and blind pension. These new participants will instead receive payments directly via the community employment scheme at a rate equivalent to their original social welfare payment, including any increase for a qualified adult and-or child dependants, plus an additional €20 participation bonus.
New participants are defined as those persons who, with effect from 16 January 2012, have not been employed in a community employment scheme in the 12 months prior to commencing the current placement. Those lone parents who are already participating in community employment schemes had no change in their one parent family payment rates. However, they lost the entitlement to increases for qualified children on their community employment allowances and receive the community employment single adult rate only.
The number of persons in community employment categorised as jobseeker's allowance eligibility has increased by 20% since the end of December 2011 to date and there has been a corresponding decrease in other eligibility categories, notably lone parents. The jobseeker's allowance category has been increasing steadily since mid-2009 owing to the changed demographics in the job-seeking population. All participants who exit a community employment scheme and do not progress into employment or further training or education can return to their social welfare payment provided they still qualify for receipt of that payment.
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: I thank the Minister of State for his reply. Those in question - one-parent families, deserted wives, widows, widowers and those with an illness benefit, disability allowance, invalidity or blind pension - are extremely vulnerable and marginalised. Surely, the idea is to encourage them into community employment schemes with added incentives. People will not join a CE scheme for the exact same money they would get on social welfare. It beggars belief the incentive which has worked for these schemes has been removed. I have known many people who have gone from these schemes into full employment, further training, post-leaving certificate courses and college. If these people are now precluded from entering a CE scheme, the other services they provide such as child care and after-schools supervision will also be gone. In turn, there will be more on the dole. Somewhere along the line, somebody is not joining the dots to keep people on these schemes instead of their having to go back on the dole.
Deputy Ciarán Cannon: It has been my experience of working with CE schemes in County Galway that the opposite applies in that we are actually finding it difficult to facilitate people who want to get on to a scheme. With 450,000 people on the live register, I also find it difficult to believe there is a crisis of recruitment from the ranks of the unemployed into CE schemes. The figures are pretty stark. The numbers on CE schemes receiving jobseeker’s allowance has increased by 20% since the end of the last year and has increased steadily since mid-2009 due to the changed demographics in the jobseeking population.
As with any other Government scheme, it must evolve to respond to the challenges of the day. Perhaps the ambition of the CE scheme when we had full employment is substantially different from that of now. With 100,000 people unemployed from the construction sector, it is important to be able to facilitate as many of these people as we possibly can in engaging with their local communities, feeling they are making a contribution to society as well as being able to avail of sufficient and topical training opportunities that will allow them get back into the workforce. We are seeing the evolution of the scheme to cope with challenges that arise today. The scheme’s make-up may be different. With 450,000 people unemployed and Ireland losing €44 million per day, we have to make some difficult decisions. The decision taken by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, on the CE schemes is correct.
The problems with community employment schemes undergoing difficulty recruiting participants due to changes in social welfare payments and participants' fears of losing their benefits;
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting the topic of the knock-on effects cuts in social welfare are having on participation in the community employment scheme. Without meaning any disrespect to the Minister of State, Deputy Ciarán Cannon, I am disappointed that the Minister for Social Protection is not present to address the issue. I thought the idea behind the Topical Issue matters was to have the Minister with direct responsibility before the House to discuss them.
I have considerable experience in the area of community employment, having been involved in the current community employment schemes and the old AnCO schemes as a member of membership committees and liaison person for participants. The Minister visited some community employment schemes in the north inner city some time ago. The specific community employment schemes to which I refer provide valuable services, including child care, after-school services and care for the elderly. They also provide a service for participants by offering them training, further training and educational opportunities, whether through first chance education or back-to-education schemes. In addition to these benefits, certain community employment schemes should be recognised as an end in themselves because they deal with extremely vulnerable individuals, including early school leavers who may have been caught up in crime or addiction. Schemes of this nature are different from other community employment schemes. In that regard, I acknowledge the decision to ring-fence schemes in the area of drugs.
There is no doubt that cuts in social welfare benefits are having a knock-on effect on participation in community employment schemes. I will cite the community after school project, CASPr, to illustrate the problem. The CASP is having difficulty filling 38 places as a result of cuts in social welfare benefits This will have a knock-on effect on the training and education grant, which means some participants in the scheme may find their educational and training opportunities being curtailed or deferred. Further, if community employment schemes cannot attract sufficient participants, they will not be able to provide badly needed services. Child safety measures have resulted in different ratios being implemented for child care projects and it is possible these projects may not be filled either.
Developments in the social welfare area are having a ripple effect. We have heard that interviews are being held. However, the approximately €20 additional payment available to participants in community employment schemes will not even cover transport costs or the cost of their lunch. Some participants are in danger of losing a small pension entitlement, while others may lose their medical card. Potential participants who could gain valuable experience from community employment schemes, whether by securing employment or entering further education, must give precedence to their economic security. Cuts in social welfare benefits are having a range of effects on community employment schemes and their participants and will have implications for supervisors and assistant supervisors if numbers decline.
Community employment schemes in certain areas - not only those which involve drugs - must be ring-fenced given the high rates of unemployment, educational disadvantage and so forth. If the Minister had been present, I would have asked her to give special consideration to the schemes in question.
Deputy Ciarán Cannon: I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, who is abroad on Government business.
As announced in the budget, from 16 January 2012, new participants in community employment schemes will not be able to simultaneously claim their original social welfare payment and a community employment allowance, as per section 12 of the Social Welfare Act 2011. This measure affects those in receipt of the following payments commencing community employment schemes after that date: one parent family payment; deserted wife's benefit; widow's-widower's pension; illness benefit; disability allowance; invalidity pension; and blind pension. These new participants will instead receive payments directly via the community employment scheme at a rate equivalent to their original social welfare payment, including any increase for a qualified adult and-or child dependants, plus an additional €20 participation bonus.
New participants are defined as those persons who, with effect from 16 January 2012, have not been employed in a community employment scheme in the 12 months prior to commencing the current placement. Those lone parents who are already participating in community employment schemes had no change in their one parent family payment rates. However, they lost the entitlement to increases for qualified children on their community employment allowances and receive the community employment single adult rate only.
The number of persons in community employment categorised as jobseeker's allowance eligibility has increased by 20% since the end of December 2011 to date and there has been a corresponding decrease in other eligibility categories, notably lone parents. The jobseeker's allowance category has been increasing steadily since mid-2009 owing to the changed demographics in the job-seeking population. All participants who exit a community employment scheme and do not progress into employment or further training or education can return to their social welfare payment provided they still qualify for receipt of that payment.
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: I thank the Minister of State for his reply. Those in question - one-parent families, deserted wives, widows, widowers and those with an illness benefit, disability allowance, invalidity or blind pension - are extremely vulnerable and marginalised. Surely, the idea is to encourage them into community employment schemes with added incentives. People will not join a CE scheme for the exact same money they would get on social welfare. It beggars belief the incentive which has worked for these schemes has been removed. I have known many people who have gone from these schemes into full employment, further training, post-leaving certificate courses and college. If these people are now precluded from entering a CE scheme, the other services they provide such as child care and after-schools supervision will also be gone. In turn, there will be more on the dole. Somewhere along the line, somebody is not joining the dots to keep people on these schemes instead of their having to go back on the dole.
Deputy Ciarán Cannon: It has been my experience of working with CE schemes in County Galway that the opposite applies in that we are actually finding it difficult to facilitate people who want to get on to a scheme. With 450,000 people on the live register, I also find it difficult to believe there is a crisis of recruitment from the ranks of the unemployed into CE schemes. The figures are pretty stark. The numbers on CE schemes receiving jobseeker’s allowance has increased by 20% since the end of the last year and has increased steadily since mid-2009 due to the changed demographics in the jobseeking population.
As with any other Government scheme, it must evolve to respond to the challenges of the day. Perhaps the ambition of the CE scheme when we had full employment is substantially different from that of now. With 100,000 people unemployed from the construction sector, it is important to be able to facilitate as many of these people as we possibly can in engaging with their local communities, feeling they are making a contribution to society as well as being able to avail of sufficient and topical training opportunities that will allow them get back into the workforce. We are seeing the evolution of the scheme to cope with challenges that arise today. The scheme’s make-up may be different. With 450,000 people unemployed and Ireland losing €44 million per day, we have to make some difficult decisions. The decision taken by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, on the CE schemes is correct.
03 October Addiction Services Private Members' Motion
Click to hear Maureen's closing speech
The legal drugs alcohol and tobacco are undoubtedly causing people significant damage. Equally, illegal drugs such as heroin, cocaine, skunk, crystal meth and so on are causing damage. We have not spent much time discussing other addictions, for example, gambling, food, sex and the Internet, that are harmful to those affected by them.
I will cite three of today's newspaper stories - a woman is in jail for stealing from her employer to fund a gambling addiction that has already cost her her marriage; according to a Limerick newspaper, more women than ever are using heroin; and €100,000 is necessary to keep the country's only mother and child detox centre open.
The level of Internet gambling is increasing. Just as there is a call for a social responsibility levy on the drinks industry, there should be a levy on the racing industry. It is proposed that betting taxes be reinvested in the industry, but surely some of that money should go towards treatment and services for those with gambling addictions. According to counselling services, more people are presenting with gambling addictions plus addictions to other substances.
This motion is wide-ranging and covers mental, physical and emotional health, suicide, homelessness, the range of addictions, polydrug use, fatalities, premature mortality, prisons, the links with lower socioe-conomic groups, crime, rape, sexual violence, the Garda, the Naval Service, the Customs and Excise, the range of treatment and rehabilitation services, research and prevention. Just as there was a Minister of State with responsibility for this area in the previous Government, we should consider whether there should be another in this Government. I support Deputy Stanton's comments.
We know the horrific statistics relating to the harm caused by the misuse and abuse of alcohol. The majority of people can use alcohol sensibly, but that there has been a change in Irish drinking patterns is without doubt. People used to have occasional nights out, but they are now bombarded by special offers and load up on cheap alcohol at home. Sales of cheap alcohol are fuelling anti-social behaviour, domestic and street violence and the neglect of children. Young people have a different mindset, in that they deliberately go out to get drunk.
Since alcohol has had a continuous presence in our history and is embedded in our culture, there is a tendency to see its misuse and abuse rather than alcohol itself as the problem. Perhaps we do see it and do not want to take the necessary steps to tackle the problem.
Under the national substance misuse strategy, the three aspects that need tackling are advertising - I must pay tribute to the fantastic advertisements that are devised for alcohol - and marketing, increased availability and low pricing. The price of food will increase, but the price of alcohol will decrease. All three aspects fuel greater consumption. The report recommends increasing the price of alcohol, creating a legislative basis for minimum pricing and applying a social responsibility levy. Other recommendations relate to advertising, early intervention guidelines, brief intervention protocols, etc.
The voluntary member of the steering committee stated: "This report is not about stopping drinking, or the nanny state. This is about reducing the amount of alcohol we consume, which is outrageously high." The Minister of State, Deputy White, outlined the statistics last night and stated that we needed to rethink our relationship with alcohol. We must stop accepting drunkenness as part of the Irish psyche.
Let us open the debate on decriminalisation. That is all. It would be a call to start discussing decriminalisation, to examine the research and to hear from the projects, task forces and users. The Union for Improved Services Communication and Education, UISCE, in inner city Dublin is the service users forum.
I will refer to an article written by Fr. Peter McVerry last year for the magazine of the Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice. He wrote:
I would address to both politicians and the wider public:
1. Do you believe that Ireland will ever again become free of illegal drugs?
If your answer is 'yes', where is the evidence for your optimism? Our experience in Ireland, over the past thirty years, suggests that drug availability is likely to continue to be a major problem, despite the successes of the Gardaí.... Almost every country in the world – including those that execute drug dealers! – has a drug problem.
2. If illegal drugs are here to stay, who should control the supply of drugs?
At present, the supply of illegal drugs is obviously controlled by criminal gangs ...
3. If drugs are here to stay, and if we do not want the criminal drug gangs to control their supply then who should do so?
It is his opinion that the State should take control of the supply, although he is not in favour of legalising drugs. Who wants to see heroin as readily available as alcohol?
The Global Commission on Drug Policy set out similar recommendations, namely, end the criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation. Three of the countries involved in the commission, Mexico, Brazil and Colombia, have significant drug problems. Despite the billions of American dollars invested in tackling those problems, matters are the same.
We must open the debate. Prevention is central. I acknowledge the work of the Young People's Facilities and Services Fund. I chaired the north inner city group since its inception. It has been good.
The Minister of State, Deputy White, referred to the strengthening families programme, which is excellent and practical, but the funding to implement it in some areas is lacking.
Most drug users and alcoholics will want to quit at some point. The difficulty lies in accessing treatment when they are ready as opposed to months down the line. The Minister of State mentioned the number of detox and residential rehab beds, of which there are not enough. Keltoi is an excellent facility in the Phoenix Park, but not all of its beds are being used. There have been improvements in Dublin, but the rest of the country is not quite keeping up.
We do not acknowledge the value of the 12-step programmes enough. They do amazing work for addicts and their loved ones.
Some homeless people who are in recovery are being forced to share transitional housing with people who are still in addiction. This is appalling and should not occur.
Deputy Clare Daly addressed the issue of prisons. It is appalling that someone who enters prison drug free will leave with an addiction. Instead of unco-ordinated releases, people should leave prison in conjunction with community-based programmes.
The problems with alcohol and drugs are deep-rooted, serious and complex and there is no easy or quick-fix solution to them, as the motion reveals. Since no Government has delivered to date, it is up to the current Government. The first step is to accept and implement the recommendations of the national misuse steering group and to support the multi-agency, statutory, voluntary and community task forces. I hope that the Government will not fail.
Approximately one year ago, I launched a leaflet in a multicultural school and provided information on drugs in various languages. I told the kids that they would believe I had lost the plot had I asked them to raise their hands if they wanted to become addicts. However, that is the reality.
Many of those young people will turn to alcohol and drugs. We must get them at the point before it becomes a problem we must tackle. They all set out thinking they will not be caught and will remain in control, but that does not happen.
I will cite three of today's newspaper stories - a woman is in jail for stealing from her employer to fund a gambling addiction that has already cost her her marriage; according to a Limerick newspaper, more women than ever are using heroin; and €100,000 is necessary to keep the country's only mother and child detox centre open.
The level of Internet gambling is increasing. Just as there is a call for a social responsibility levy on the drinks industry, there should be a levy on the racing industry. It is proposed that betting taxes be reinvested in the industry, but surely some of that money should go towards treatment and services for those with gambling addictions. According to counselling services, more people are presenting with gambling addictions plus addictions to other substances.
This motion is wide-ranging and covers mental, physical and emotional health, suicide, homelessness, the range of addictions, polydrug use, fatalities, premature mortality, prisons, the links with lower socioe-conomic groups, crime, rape, sexual violence, the Garda, the Naval Service, the Customs and Excise, the range of treatment and rehabilitation services, research and prevention. Just as there was a Minister of State with responsibility for this area in the previous Government, we should consider whether there should be another in this Government. I support Deputy Stanton's comments.
We know the horrific statistics relating to the harm caused by the misuse and abuse of alcohol. The majority of people can use alcohol sensibly, but that there has been a change in Irish drinking patterns is without doubt. People used to have occasional nights out, but they are now bombarded by special offers and load up on cheap alcohol at home. Sales of cheap alcohol are fuelling anti-social behaviour, domestic and street violence and the neglect of children. Young people have a different mindset, in that they deliberately go out to get drunk.
Since alcohol has had a continuous presence in our history and is embedded in our culture, there is a tendency to see its misuse and abuse rather than alcohol itself as the problem. Perhaps we do see it and do not want to take the necessary steps to tackle the problem.
Under the national substance misuse strategy, the three aspects that need tackling are advertising - I must pay tribute to the fantastic advertisements that are devised for alcohol - and marketing, increased availability and low pricing. The price of food will increase, but the price of alcohol will decrease. All three aspects fuel greater consumption. The report recommends increasing the price of alcohol, creating a legislative basis for minimum pricing and applying a social responsibility levy. Other recommendations relate to advertising, early intervention guidelines, brief intervention protocols, etc.
The voluntary member of the steering committee stated: "This report is not about stopping drinking, or the nanny state. This is about reducing the amount of alcohol we consume, which is outrageously high." The Minister of State, Deputy White, outlined the statistics last night and stated that we needed to rethink our relationship with alcohol. We must stop accepting drunkenness as part of the Irish psyche.
Let us open the debate on decriminalisation. That is all. It would be a call to start discussing decriminalisation, to examine the research and to hear from the projects, task forces and users. The Union for Improved Services Communication and Education, UISCE, in inner city Dublin is the service users forum.
I will refer to an article written by Fr. Peter McVerry last year for the magazine of the Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice. He wrote:
I would address to both politicians and the wider public:
1. Do you believe that Ireland will ever again become free of illegal drugs?
If your answer is 'yes', where is the evidence for your optimism? Our experience in Ireland, over the past thirty years, suggests that drug availability is likely to continue to be a major problem, despite the successes of the Gardaí.... Almost every country in the world – including those that execute drug dealers! – has a drug problem.
2. If illegal drugs are here to stay, who should control the supply of drugs?
At present, the supply of illegal drugs is obviously controlled by criminal gangs ...
3. If drugs are here to stay, and if we do not want the criminal drug gangs to control their supply then who should do so?
It is his opinion that the State should take control of the supply, although he is not in favour of legalising drugs. Who wants to see heroin as readily available as alcohol?
The Global Commission on Drug Policy set out similar recommendations, namely, end the criminalisation, marginalisation and stigmatisation. Three of the countries involved in the commission, Mexico, Brazil and Colombia, have significant drug problems. Despite the billions of American dollars invested in tackling those problems, matters are the same.
We must open the debate. Prevention is central. I acknowledge the work of the Young People's Facilities and Services Fund. I chaired the north inner city group since its inception. It has been good.
The Minister of State, Deputy White, referred to the strengthening families programme, which is excellent and practical, but the funding to implement it in some areas is lacking.
Most drug users and alcoholics will want to quit at some point. The difficulty lies in accessing treatment when they are ready as opposed to months down the line. The Minister of State mentioned the number of detox and residential rehab beds, of which there are not enough. Keltoi is an excellent facility in the Phoenix Park, but not all of its beds are being used. There have been improvements in Dublin, but the rest of the country is not quite keeping up.
We do not acknowledge the value of the 12-step programmes enough. They do amazing work for addicts and their loved ones.
Some homeless people who are in recovery are being forced to share transitional housing with people who are still in addiction. This is appalling and should not occur.
Deputy Clare Daly addressed the issue of prisons. It is appalling that someone who enters prison drug free will leave with an addiction. Instead of unco-ordinated releases, people should leave prison in conjunction with community-based programmes.
The problems with alcohol and drugs are deep-rooted, serious and complex and there is no easy or quick-fix solution to them, as the motion reveals. Since no Government has delivered to date, it is up to the current Government. The first step is to accept and implement the recommendations of the national misuse steering group and to support the multi-agency, statutory, voluntary and community task forces. I hope that the Government will not fail.
Approximately one year ago, I launched a leaflet in a multicultural school and provided information on drugs in various languages. I told the kids that they would believe I had lost the plot had I asked them to raise their hands if they wanted to become addicts. However, that is the reality.
Many of those young people will turn to alcohol and drugs. We must get them at the point before it becomes a problem we must tackle. They all set out thinking they will not be caught and will remain in control, but that does not happen.
03 October Priority Question Hare Coursing
Clic to listen to debate
3. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht Jimmy Deenihan TD if, in view of the report from the Ranger on the coursing meeting at Kilflynn, County Kerry, during last season stating that the very wet weather made it difficult for the hares to run and resulted in twelve hares being caught, he will make it a condition of the licence that no coursing should take place in wet weather when ground conditions are heavy and soggy thus making it difficult, if not impossible, for the hares to run from the greyhounds and that the Ranger will have the power to ensure that coursing will not take place in those conditions. [42239/12]
Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The control of live hare coursing, including the operation of individual coursing meetings and managing the use of hares for that activity, is carried out under the Greyhound Industry Act 1958, which is the responsibility of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Hare coursing is administered by the Irish Coursing Club, which is a body set up under the Greyhound Industry Act 1958. The regulation of hare coursing facilitates the control of coursing and reduces the attraction of illegal, unregulated coursing activity.
I have a responsibility under national and EU wildlife law to ensure the conservation of the populations of certain species, including the hare. In this regard, the Wildlife Acts control the hunting of certain mammals by the use of open seasons. Hares may only be hunted during each open season from 26 September to 28 February of the following year, including by coursing at regulated coursing meetings.
Under the terms of the Wildlife Acts, a licence is needed by the Irish Coursing Club, covering its affiliated coursing clubs, to capture or tag hares. I have issued licences to the Irish Coursing Club allowing its affiliated coursing clubs to net and tag hares for the purpose of hare coursing for the 2012-2013 season. These licences currently have a total of 26 conditions attached to them. These are reviewed regularly and are updated where considered necessary. Conditions of the licences cover a range of items, including providing data on hare captures and releases; having a veterinary surgeon in attendance at a coursing meeting; not coursing hares more than once per day; not coursing sick or injured hares; and having adequate escapes for hares during coursing.
In practical terms, weather can obviously have an effect on such events and in very bad weather the Irish Coursing Club may call off a coursing meeting. I am aware that it has done so in the past. While I am satisfied that, in general, the licensing system operates well, I will consider the suggestion of the Deputy for the next hare coursing season in light of the concerns raised by her.
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: There is something positive in the Minister's reply. He promises to consider my proposal. To leave the matter to a coursing club to decide whether a meeting should go ahead is like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas.
The Minister has told me that he once proposed the muzzling of greyhounds. I know he has some concern for animal welfare. I want to see, at the least, a level playing field so that hares have a reasonable chance of escaping. The Minister knows where I stand on hare coursing. I would like to see it banned altogether. Failing that, I would like to see hares being given some chance to escape. Weather conditions can make that practically impossible. At the coursing meeting to which I referred in the question, weather conditions made it difficult for hares to run, 12 of them were caught and some had to be put down. It is important this condition be attached to the granting of a coursing licence and I am glad the Minister is considering it. If weather conditions are bad, there is also a danger that greyhounds will be injured. It is vital this condition be attached to the licence.
Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: I can have a further conversation with Deputy O'Sullivan on this issue. We have had conversations in the past on issues she has raised with me.
Approximately 95% of hares captured at coursing meetings are returned to the wild. We have a thriving hare population in the country. Where there is coursing, there will be a thriving hare population. Without hares there is no coursing, so it is in the interests of coursing clubs to maintain a high standard of hare husbandry.
The report to which the Deputy referred was prepared in my Department which supervises hare husbandry and habitats. We take this issue very seriously. Recently, a wildlife ranger, on his own initiative, gave coursing clubs in north Kerry a talk about hare husbandry. We are putting a major emphasis on hare husbandry and care of the hare. If coursing is to survive the coursing clubs must respect the hare, look after hares as much as possible and protect the hare habitats in order that they continue to breed. A hare count taken in early 2006 showed there were 233,000 hares in the country, while in early 2007 there were 535,000. The hare population is increasing.
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: The best thing for the hare's welfare is that it is not subjected to the barbaric practice of coursing. While 95% of them escape, they escape in order to be brought back the next day for the next coursing event, whenever that occurs. There are issues in that regard but we will take them up with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in the context of the Animal Health and Welfare Bill.
Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: The control of live hare coursing, including the operation of individual coursing meetings and managing the use of hares for that activity, is carried out under the Greyhound Industry Act 1958, which is the responsibility of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Hare coursing is administered by the Irish Coursing Club, which is a body set up under the Greyhound Industry Act 1958. The regulation of hare coursing facilitates the control of coursing and reduces the attraction of illegal, unregulated coursing activity.
I have a responsibility under national and EU wildlife law to ensure the conservation of the populations of certain species, including the hare. In this regard, the Wildlife Acts control the hunting of certain mammals by the use of open seasons. Hares may only be hunted during each open season from 26 September to 28 February of the following year, including by coursing at regulated coursing meetings.
Under the terms of the Wildlife Acts, a licence is needed by the Irish Coursing Club, covering its affiliated coursing clubs, to capture or tag hares. I have issued licences to the Irish Coursing Club allowing its affiliated coursing clubs to net and tag hares for the purpose of hare coursing for the 2012-2013 season. These licences currently have a total of 26 conditions attached to them. These are reviewed regularly and are updated where considered necessary. Conditions of the licences cover a range of items, including providing data on hare captures and releases; having a veterinary surgeon in attendance at a coursing meeting; not coursing hares more than once per day; not coursing sick or injured hares; and having adequate escapes for hares during coursing.
In practical terms, weather can obviously have an effect on such events and in very bad weather the Irish Coursing Club may call off a coursing meeting. I am aware that it has done so in the past. While I am satisfied that, in general, the licensing system operates well, I will consider the suggestion of the Deputy for the next hare coursing season in light of the concerns raised by her.
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: There is something positive in the Minister's reply. He promises to consider my proposal. To leave the matter to a coursing club to decide whether a meeting should go ahead is like asking a turkey to vote for Christmas.
The Minister has told me that he once proposed the muzzling of greyhounds. I know he has some concern for animal welfare. I want to see, at the least, a level playing field so that hares have a reasonable chance of escaping. The Minister knows where I stand on hare coursing. I would like to see it banned altogether. Failing that, I would like to see hares being given some chance to escape. Weather conditions can make that practically impossible. At the coursing meeting to which I referred in the question, weather conditions made it difficult for hares to run, 12 of them were caught and some had to be put down. It is important this condition be attached to the granting of a coursing licence and I am glad the Minister is considering it. If weather conditions are bad, there is also a danger that greyhounds will be injured. It is vital this condition be attached to the licence.
Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: I can have a further conversation with Deputy O'Sullivan on this issue. We have had conversations in the past on issues she has raised with me.
Approximately 95% of hares captured at coursing meetings are returned to the wild. We have a thriving hare population in the country. Where there is coursing, there will be a thriving hare population. Without hares there is no coursing, so it is in the interests of coursing clubs to maintain a high standard of hare husbandry.
The report to which the Deputy referred was prepared in my Department which supervises hare husbandry and habitats. We take this issue very seriously. Recently, a wildlife ranger, on his own initiative, gave coursing clubs in north Kerry a talk about hare husbandry. We are putting a major emphasis on hare husbandry and care of the hare. If coursing is to survive the coursing clubs must respect the hare, look after hares as much as possible and protect the hare habitats in order that they continue to breed. A hare count taken in early 2006 showed there were 233,000 hares in the country, while in early 2007 there were 535,000. The hare population is increasing.
Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan: The best thing for the hare's welfare is that it is not subjected to the barbaric practice of coursing. While 95% of them escape, they escape in order to be brought back the next day for the next coursing event, whenever that occurs. There are issues in that regard but we will take them up with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food in the context of the Animal Health and Welfare Bill.
02 October Addiction Services: Motion Private Members
Click to listen to Maureen Introducing Motion
Ar dtús, ba mhaith liom comhghairdeachas a ghabháil leis an Aire Stáit as an phost nua atá aige.
There is a public face of addiction. It is the zombie-like drug addict we see on the streets or the alcoholic who is staggering home or falling off the bar stool, drunk. The private face presents differently. Not all addicts fit the stereotypes I have mentioned. Addiction affects many people in our society. For every person in addiction, at least six or ten other people are affected by it, often very seriously. We know the economic cost. It is more than €3 billion, considering the crime related and health related matters. I move this Private Members' motion to bring this matter onto the floor of the House and to look at the scale of the problem, what is being done to address the matter and what is lacking in tackling these issues, and to ensure the issue does not end up on the cutting-room floor of the budget.
It is also important to look at the changing nature of addiction. We are now in the area of polydrug use of lethal combinations, including alcohol. Services must be able to keep up with these changes in use. Many of the statutory services are focused solely on heroin use. We must also consider the use of the Internet in sourcing substances. In acknowledging the scale of the problem, the point must be made that it is not confined to Dublin. It is a national problem. Alcohol was always there, but now the towns and villages of Ireland are seeing heroin, cocaine, head shop products and so on. We must also consider other addictions, such as gambling, food, sex and the Internet.
We know there is gangland crime. It is one part of the problem. The horrific recent killings, particularly in front of young children, were especially gruesome. I hope the other aspects of addiction will get the same attention and resources as the gangs are getting.
I am hoping for an honest, thoughtful and thought provoking debate. The motion calls for addiction to be prioritised as a health issue and not primarily a criminal issue. It is good to see drugs are now the responsibility of the Department of Health. That is a positive step.
Heroin first appeared in the late 1970s and 1980s in Dublin's inner city, where cynical operators and dealers targeted poor communities. The drugs were dispensed like sweets until the teenagers were hooked. I saw so many lovely young people taken over by heroin. Their families were devastated and their communities held to ransom. The lone voice of the late Tony Gregory brought the issue into the Dáil Chamber, where it was not taken seriously because officialdom had no real interest in tackling the issue then. The flat complexes in the inner city were known as heroin supermarkets at the time. Tony Gregory continued to make drugs a major issue in the Dáil and in Dublin City Council. This debate is so that the issue will not be off the agenda.
Currently, we are seeing a rise in heroin use. It is interesting that it is coinciding with another economic depression. Again, there are no geographic bounds. At a meeting this morning we were told of increases in seizures of heroin for personal use and supply in Dublin city. The European monitoring centre for drugs and drug addiction places Ireland top of the table of EU countries for heroin use. This is compounded by polydrug use, including alcohol use.
We are also seeing an alarming emergence of grow houses in suburbia, in rural areas and in rented apartments. It is not confined to poor communities. The growers' expertise is considerable. They are producing higher strength cannabis. The main psychoactive chemical, THC, is several times higher in grow house skunk than in hash. Project workers working with young people are concerned about this. It is being confused with the more benign name of hash which, whether we agree or not, has a different effect on people. I will not be like various Presidents of the United States or Ministers and admit to smoking the odd joint when I was in college. I did not. This is irrelevant, but I thought I would put it out there.
I have seen the long-term effects of significant use of cannabis. It is not good to see. However, we should open the debate on cannabis use and look at the arguments for and against. Ireland is the only EU country not to regulate the medical use of cannabis. The Netherlands is looking at classifying this high potency cannabis with cocaine and ecstasy. More young people are using skunk in Dublin. At one of the projects young people talk about paranoia and panic attacks. Other substances are mixed with skunk and young users, in turn, mix it with Benzodiazepine and alcohol. There is great pressure on some drug projects because they are dealing with a broader array of drugs, rather than cannabis or heroin on their own. There is also crystal meth, crack cocaine and tablets.
It may be because the heroin epidemic began there that Dublin's inner city has become associated with drugs. The response in the inner city has been remarkable. We have excellent projects and services in the voluntary and community sector. There is SAOL, Soilse, Chrysalis, HOPE and Crinan, to name a few. They are taking on these challenges. The SAOL project produced the Reduce the Use booklet which is being used in Ireland and throughout Europe. There are other interesting initiatives on harm reduction. I was at the north inner city drugs task force today. I used to chair it when I was a teacher and I am now back as a public representative. I listened to project workers talking about their work, how they are coping with funding cuts and with their terror of the effect of further cuts to front-line services.
The late Tony Gregory once said, "Follow the money". That eventually led to the setting up of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, was Minister for Finance at the time. It took the murder of Veronica Guerin to get people moving. That is not good enough for all the other people who are involved in the addiction area. In 2007, Tony Gregory also spoke about the middle rank of dealers, and called for a mini-CAB for those areas where young people see dealers with extravagant lifestyles and no visible means of income. The motion calls for some of the assets of drug related crime acquired by CAB to go back into communities most negatively affected and used for treatment, rehabilitation, prevention, education and family support services. The money could also be used to deal with the intimidation and fear that families must deal with because of drug debt.
We know about death from overdose, lethal mixing and suicide. We have innovative programmes that are seriously at risk of being cut. I am talking about ASIST training, particularly for those dealing directly with vulnerable people. Statutory agencies sometimes send people to do this training and then do not use it, while community projects whose workers would use the training might not have the funding for it. Mindfulness also has a programme. It is a proven strategy for those in recovery. The Oasis Deora counselling centre in North Wall, Dublin, is one of the few that will deal with people in addiction. So many programmes wait until people are in recovery.
Between 20,000 and 50,000 are affected by hepatitis C but effective treatment is available. We know that injecting drug use, especially the sharing of injecting equipment, is the leading risk behaviour for the transmission of hepatitis C. The national strategy has set out a clear plan. The Government amendment refers to the expansion of needle exchange services. Will this include the provision of injecting rooms which are in some other cities but not in Ireland? This is controversial, but we need that debate.
We also need the debate on decriminalisation. We need to have a reasoned debate looking at the research.
I will make a couple of final points. With regard to the methadone protocol, methadone has certainly had a stabilising effect on drug users. There is no doubt about that, but the problem is that people are being left on methadone for too long. There is a need to address this. It is much cheaper to have somebody on methadone than to have them in a rehabilitation or residential centre.
My final point is about the alcohol strategy. A national substance misuse strategy was launched last February but the Government will have to take on a very powerful lobby, that is, both the drinks industry and the sporting organisations that accept sponsorship from the drinks industry. We have seen all the problems and we know the facts and figures about the effects of alcohol. I could use an extreme case. We could ask one of the drug barons in Dublin, Cork or Limerick if they would like to sponsor an event. We ask it of the drinks industry, which is also responsible for a drug. It is a much more harmful drug at times because more people are dying from alcohol related illnesses than are dying from all the other drugs combined.
I will conclude as I do not wish to take time from the other Members in the Technical Group. I will have more time to speak tomorrow night.
There is a public face of addiction. It is the zombie-like drug addict we see on the streets or the alcoholic who is staggering home or falling off the bar stool, drunk. The private face presents differently. Not all addicts fit the stereotypes I have mentioned. Addiction affects many people in our society. For every person in addiction, at least six or ten other people are affected by it, often very seriously. We know the economic cost. It is more than €3 billion, considering the crime related and health related matters. I move this Private Members' motion to bring this matter onto the floor of the House and to look at the scale of the problem, what is being done to address the matter and what is lacking in tackling these issues, and to ensure the issue does not end up on the cutting-room floor of the budget.
It is also important to look at the changing nature of addiction. We are now in the area of polydrug use of lethal combinations, including alcohol. Services must be able to keep up with these changes in use. Many of the statutory services are focused solely on heroin use. We must also consider the use of the Internet in sourcing substances. In acknowledging the scale of the problem, the point must be made that it is not confined to Dublin. It is a national problem. Alcohol was always there, but now the towns and villages of Ireland are seeing heroin, cocaine, head shop products and so on. We must also consider other addictions, such as gambling, food, sex and the Internet.
We know there is gangland crime. It is one part of the problem. The horrific recent killings, particularly in front of young children, were especially gruesome. I hope the other aspects of addiction will get the same attention and resources as the gangs are getting.
I am hoping for an honest, thoughtful and thought provoking debate. The motion calls for addiction to be prioritised as a health issue and not primarily a criminal issue. It is good to see drugs are now the responsibility of the Department of Health. That is a positive step.
Heroin first appeared in the late 1970s and 1980s in Dublin's inner city, where cynical operators and dealers targeted poor communities. The drugs were dispensed like sweets until the teenagers were hooked. I saw so many lovely young people taken over by heroin. Their families were devastated and their communities held to ransom. The lone voice of the late Tony Gregory brought the issue into the Dáil Chamber, where it was not taken seriously because officialdom had no real interest in tackling the issue then. The flat complexes in the inner city were known as heroin supermarkets at the time. Tony Gregory continued to make drugs a major issue in the Dáil and in Dublin City Council. This debate is so that the issue will not be off the agenda.
Currently, we are seeing a rise in heroin use. It is interesting that it is coinciding with another economic depression. Again, there are no geographic bounds. At a meeting this morning we were told of increases in seizures of heroin for personal use and supply in Dublin city. The European monitoring centre for drugs and drug addiction places Ireland top of the table of EU countries for heroin use. This is compounded by polydrug use, including alcohol use.
We are also seeing an alarming emergence of grow houses in suburbia, in rural areas and in rented apartments. It is not confined to poor communities. The growers' expertise is considerable. They are producing higher strength cannabis. The main psychoactive chemical, THC, is several times higher in grow house skunk than in hash. Project workers working with young people are concerned about this. It is being confused with the more benign name of hash which, whether we agree or not, has a different effect on people. I will not be like various Presidents of the United States or Ministers and admit to smoking the odd joint when I was in college. I did not. This is irrelevant, but I thought I would put it out there.
I have seen the long-term effects of significant use of cannabis. It is not good to see. However, we should open the debate on cannabis use and look at the arguments for and against. Ireland is the only EU country not to regulate the medical use of cannabis. The Netherlands is looking at classifying this high potency cannabis with cocaine and ecstasy. More young people are using skunk in Dublin. At one of the projects young people talk about paranoia and panic attacks. Other substances are mixed with skunk and young users, in turn, mix it with Benzodiazepine and alcohol. There is great pressure on some drug projects because they are dealing with a broader array of drugs, rather than cannabis or heroin on their own. There is also crystal meth, crack cocaine and tablets.
It may be because the heroin epidemic began there that Dublin's inner city has become associated with drugs. The response in the inner city has been remarkable. We have excellent projects and services in the voluntary and community sector. There is SAOL, Soilse, Chrysalis, HOPE and Crinan, to name a few. They are taking on these challenges. The SAOL project produced the Reduce the Use booklet which is being used in Ireland and throughout Europe. There are other interesting initiatives on harm reduction. I was at the north inner city drugs task force today. I used to chair it when I was a teacher and I am now back as a public representative. I listened to project workers talking about their work, how they are coping with funding cuts and with their terror of the effect of further cuts to front-line services.
The late Tony Gregory once said, "Follow the money". That eventually led to the setting up of the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB. The Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, was Minister for Finance at the time. It took the murder of Veronica Guerin to get people moving. That is not good enough for all the other people who are involved in the addiction area. In 2007, Tony Gregory also spoke about the middle rank of dealers, and called for a mini-CAB for those areas where young people see dealers with extravagant lifestyles and no visible means of income. The motion calls for some of the assets of drug related crime acquired by CAB to go back into communities most negatively affected and used for treatment, rehabilitation, prevention, education and family support services. The money could also be used to deal with the intimidation and fear that families must deal with because of drug debt.
We know about death from overdose, lethal mixing and suicide. We have innovative programmes that are seriously at risk of being cut. I am talking about ASIST training, particularly for those dealing directly with vulnerable people. Statutory agencies sometimes send people to do this training and then do not use it, while community projects whose workers would use the training might not have the funding for it. Mindfulness also has a programme. It is a proven strategy for those in recovery. The Oasis Deora counselling centre in North Wall, Dublin, is one of the few that will deal with people in addiction. So many programmes wait until people are in recovery.
Between 20,000 and 50,000 are affected by hepatitis C but effective treatment is available. We know that injecting drug use, especially the sharing of injecting equipment, is the leading risk behaviour for the transmission of hepatitis C. The national strategy has set out a clear plan. The Government amendment refers to the expansion of needle exchange services. Will this include the provision of injecting rooms which are in some other cities but not in Ireland? This is controversial, but we need that debate.
We also need the debate on decriminalisation. We need to have a reasoned debate looking at the research.
I will make a couple of final points. With regard to the methadone protocol, methadone has certainly had a stabilising effect on drug users. There is no doubt about that, but the problem is that people are being left on methadone for too long. There is a need to address this. It is much cheaper to have somebody on methadone than to have them in a rehabilitation or residential centre.
My final point is about the alcohol strategy. A national substance misuse strategy was launched last February but the Government will have to take on a very powerful lobby, that is, both the drinks industry and the sporting organisations that accept sponsorship from the drinks industry. We have seen all the problems and we know the facts and figures about the effects of alcohol. I could use an extreme case. We could ask one of the drug barons in Dublin, Cork or Limerick if they would like to sponsor an event. We ask it of the drinks industry, which is also responsible for a drug. It is a much more harmful drug at times because more people are dying from alcohol related illnesses than are dying from all the other drugs combined.
I will conclude as I do not wish to take time from the other Members in the Technical Group. I will have more time to speak tomorrow night.
